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Minithron
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 112
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 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: New Debvblog - "Alchemy" |
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http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=601
| Quote: | As Dr.EyjoG has remarked in the past, one of the differences between the EVE economy and real-life economies is the inability for the participants - that's you lot - to work around inefficiencies with genuine product innovation. In a real-world economy, shortages and bottlenecks drive R&D teams to find new and better ways of doing things. If oil prices rise, people start looking harder for reliable alternative energy sources, and the higher prices go the harder people look.
Because we're not (yet) at the point where this can be done in EVE, we as developers have to step in occasionally and do the job instead. This happened in a big way two years ago when we added the invention mechanics - essentially an innovation that allowed you all to bypass the T2 production bottleneck imposed by the limited supply of BPOs.
Under invention, T2 BPOs still have significant value, but players who don't have the good fortune or good business acumen to own an original blueprint can still compete in the market, and this competition has increased availability and driven prices down.
However, there's rarely such a thing as a perfect supply chain, and in opening the floodgates at the manufacturing stage, we increased demand for raw materials, which also have limitations on maximum supply in a way which closely mirrors the original situation with T2 BPOs. With player numbers rising and increasing numbers of players reaching the skill levels needed to use more advanced T2 gear, the pressure on certain key raw materials has steadily increased.
In particular, two rare moon minerals - dysprosium and (to a lesser extent) promethium - are becoming ever-more expensive as increased demand puts pressure on a limited supply. This is likely to become an increasingly large issue as time goes on, with prices for these minerals continuing to rise due to demand, and the increased price being passed on to the consumer of the final product.
If you think this is sounding remarkably similar to the original situation with T2 BPOs, you're not alone! In order to head this problem off at the pass before it becomes critical, we're implementing some new mechanics with similar goals to invention - take the load off the limited resources while preserving a good chunk of their values - but this time with moon minerals rather than blueprints.
So how will this work? We've created six new reactions which allow you to create key intermediate materials without relying on the rarest moon minerals. This isn't, of course, an efficient process! Each rare mineral has been assigned a more common counterpart, which can be used in the place of the rare mineral in these new reactions at a ratio of 20:1, which roughly approximates the difference in moon count between the rare mineral and the common mineral in each case.
Let's take ferrogel as an example. Currently it takes 100 hafnium and 100 dysprosium to make 200 ferrogel. With the new reaction, you'll take 100 hafnium and 100 cadmium to make 100 unrefined ferrogel, which can then be refined down to give 10 ferrogel and 95 hafnium. The final ratios at the end of the process see you using 100 cadmium and 5 hafnium to create 10 ferrogel, per cycle. The proportion of hafnium stays the same, but the amount of cadmium is 20 times the amount of dysprosium you'd normally use per unit, and it takes ten times longer to make 1000 units of ferrogel.
The four pairings are cadmium/dysprosium, vanadium/thulium, chromium/promethium and platinum/neodymium. The final output of each of the reactions will be ten units per cycle, and the common mineral always replaces the mineral at a 20:1 ratio.
This will allow the moon mineral market to take some of the strain off dysprosium and promethium moons in particular while also preserving their value. If oil prices stay low, the incentive to develop and deploy alternative energy sources diminishes. In the same way, market prices of the commoner materials and the cost of mining and reacting them will create dynamic minimum values for intermediate materials created through this process, which gives owners of rare moons the ability to undercut these values and maintain a hold on the market in situations where supply can keep up with demand. Where demand outstrips supply, these reactions will allow the market to try and adjust itself to cope.
We're hopeful that this change will fit in cleanly as the "other half" of the invention mechanic, and we will of course have the good doctor monitor the situation so we can react to changes down the road.
Build safe!
-Greyscale |
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Goumindong
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 4966
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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But how much more prolific are the other reactions? 20x more doesn't mean much if you produce it 10x faster from 4x more moons.
ed: probably won't matter much and will be a good mechanic for t2 production expansion. |
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Aypse
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 2333
Location: Bitter retired vet
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Mah dyspro backbone. 
I wonder whats the point at which using these alternate reactions is cheaper than the existing reactions. It will be interesting to see if they set the bar at its current level, higher, or lower than the current price.
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Minithron
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Somehow, dysprosium is getting nerfed. Can someone translate for regular people? |
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Tajidan
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: NSFW
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Minithron wrote: | | Somehow, dysprosium is getting nerfed. Can someone translate for regular people? |
you dont need moon
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| Tajidan wrote: | | VOLLKORN HARTKERN |
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Nexus Kinnon
Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 959
Location: Genos // HYDRA RELOADED BITCH FUCK YEAH
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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basically you can make the products that you currently have to have dsypro to make, but with inferior moon mins. The disadvantage is a loss of efficiency.
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Rodj Blake
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 2922
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Minithron wrote: | | Somehow, dysprosium is getting nerfed. Can someone translate for regular people? |
Imagine that you could build stuff with mexallon instead of zydrine.
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Aypse
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 2333
Location: Bitter retired vet
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Minithron wrote: | | Somehow, dysprosium is getting nerfed. Can someone translate for regular people? |
Current system:
100 Hafnium + 100 dysprosium -----> 200 ferrogel
New system (after these changes go through):
100 Hafnium + 100 dysprosium -----> 200 ferrogel
OR
100 hafnium + 2000 cadnium -------->200 ferrogel
So, basically when dyspro prices rise above a given level, its cheaper to produce ferrogel using the second formula which doesn't require sysprosium.
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Haffrage
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 9258
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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So, in essence, they're doing to the T2 market what they just undid on the GTC market. Nice.
edit: Also, cadmium makes me think of cadbury eggs. I really like this.
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Minithron
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Aypse  |
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Bruno Bonner
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 773
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder why they didnt went out for the full chain down to gasses
100 Cadmium + 100 Caesium => 200 Caesarium Cadmide
They could have created the
2000 Silicates + 100 Caesium => 200 Caesarium Cadmide
Since now the pressure will be on using the mid-level stuff. |
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Weirda
Team Minmatar
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 3114
Location: Queens of the Stone Age [QotSA]/Rote Kapelle
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Aypse wrote: | | Minithron wrote: | | Somehow, dysprosium is getting nerfed. Can someone translate for regular people? |
Current system:
100 Hafnium + 100 dysprosium -----> 200 ferrogel
New system (after these changes go through):
100 Hafnium + 100 dysprosium -----> 200 ferrogel
OR
100 hafnium + 2000 cadnium -------->200 ferrogel
So, basically when dyspro prices rise above a given level, its cheaper to produce ferrogel using the second formula which doesn't require sysprosium. |
Wow - this exactly what Weirda said in Moon Min thread which everyone completely ignore! 
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jon.j
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 4140
Location: Southampton Uni
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps an unseen effect this will have is a logistical one, corps or alliances who do their own T2 production but don't have a supply of high end moon mins will be rubbing their hands with glee.
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Bruce Boyako
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 4747
Location: Aussie Aussie Aussie.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting. Very interesting. Running some numbers now.
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James Lyrus
Keeper of the Commandments
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 9910
Location: Double posting in your SHC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Weirda wrote: |
Wow - this exactly what Weirda said in Moon Min thread which everyone completely ignore! |
Not everyone, clearly. |
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